Intro: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Jenna Brown Show. I am Jenna Brown, psychic business strategist, wealth Energetics mentor and subconscious healing expert. The guide for women who are scaling to 6, 7, 8 figures in their business and who are done playing small with their power, their money, and their visibility, who have a deep inner belief that they get to have it all.
This is a space where strategy meets the subconscious where money becomes clean and where you learn how to expand your field of influence without burning yourself out or betraying yourself. Contrary to popular opinion, we talk about wealth, leadership, identity energetics, and what it takes to actually hold the type of money, the type of business and reality that you are calling in.
Clients cash, impact, desire. We talk about it all here. If you're ready to move beyond the hustle, beyond the proving and into overflow, that feels grounded, embodied, and [00:01:00] sustainable. You, my friends, are in the right place. Let's begin.
Jenna Brown: Hi, everyone. Welcome back to the Jenna Brown Show. So happy that you're here. Okay, we have one of my faves on the pod today, uh, Erin Lindstrom. She's one of my homies, one of my clients. She literally casually runs the entire back end with her team of my business as well. So Erin, say hi
Erin Lindstrom: Hi. So happy to be here. Thanks for having me.
Jenna Brown: Yeah. So glad that we're doing this. Okay, we're gonna just casually solve the world's problems today
Erin Lindstrom: Love that for us.
Jenna Brown: I just
have
Erin Lindstrom: Thursday.
Jenna Brown: A casual Thursday. Like this morning I'm planning to go camping, and then I get on a podcast, we solve the world's problems, and then I go camping. Like this just feels like a normal day for me, so love it.
I'm so glad that you're here. Okay, for everyone who's listening, Erin is one, a magical unicorn. You will know that in five seconds as you continue to listen to her. But two, she is... [00:02:00] The thing that like makes her different than everyone else in the industry that she runs and plays in, is she is truly a sales strategist at heart.
and she's gonna tell us more about that. She's so freaking strategic, but also so intuitive, and I feel like that is... I mean, we all know that I am intuitive as a strategist, but like it's rare to find someone who can use the strategy, logical part of their brain, and also the intuitive part of their being while they're supporting you.
But then also she's just casually a founder and CEO of The Commonwealth Co, which is an entire OBM back end agency. But do you call it that? Like you tell, you tell... You give your spiel to us of
Erin Lindstrom: Sure
Jenna Brown: how w- how you describe what it is that you do.
Erin Lindstrom: Yeah, I feel like agencies have a bad rap, so I
Jenna Brown: I know.
Erin Lindstrom: away from that. I'm like, "But we're not a regular agency, we're a cool agency."
Jenna Brown: I know. I'm like, "I don't wanna trigger you immediately right off the bat."
Erin Lindstrom: it's all good. Yes, Commonwealth Co. is a behind-the-scenes ops agency for online business owners, and so we basically do, [00:03:00] like everything that everyone doesn't wanna do.
And that can be different things for different people, but we cover everything from like client care to podcast management, YouTube management launch management, all of the management, and then also the doing, the implementation and the building and the making sure everything's going and people know where they're going, everyone has what they need.
If it's that, we do that.
Jenna Brown: I love that. Okay, and something, you just said this 'cause you said management four,
Erin Lindstrom: Mm-hmm.
Jenna Brown: 420 times, and I was triggered the whole time. No, I'm just kidding. But it made me think of a ping, because here's the thing. I have had Erin and the team in the backend of my business for the last eight or nine months now, at the time of recording this in June 2026, and I remember going to this conference last year, listening to a feminine embodiment coach speaking, and she said something that really stuck to me because one of the things we're gonna talk about on this podcast is, like, when are you ready to hire a whole backend team, and how do you know what that process looks like?
It's [00:04:00] such a struggle, and God knows I've tried a million different things. And yeah, anyways, we'll get into that. But I remember being at this thing, and she said, "When you are making hiring decisions, hire people based off of what makes you feel more held, not something that makes it feel like you have more to hold, AKA manage."
And when I think about when I hired you guys, she said that. I couldn't tell you anything else she said, or I don't think I was at the conference for any other reason to, other than to hear that, because I've really made a lot of my decisions from that space of like, does this make me feel more held, or does this make me feel like it's more to hold?
let's talk about that for a minute and your experience of supporting companies, entrepreneurs, personal brands. Like, when we are out here and we have so many fucking different hats on, and we're like, "Hi," there's so much. We really wanna talk about, by the way, the stage of business where it's like that 200 to [00:05:00] 250K year mark.
We were, like, jokingly calling it the the mark of death. No. It's literally, it's a really, in my opinion, hard stage,
uh, that can create a lot of plateau in people's companies because you need to scale and you need to hire, but you're also probably living off of your company at that point.
Anyways, okay, so k- like, riff on that for a second of what you have seen being a part of that experience for people of th- doing the holding as the company and what has happened for them in that process.
Erin Lindstrom: Yeah. So it's actually interesting because the first thing that I think about is my experience like growing up, I was a babysitter, and I have like 16 younger cousins and so here, here I am, right? Being helpful
Jenna Brown: you, Catholic or something?
Erin Lindstrom: In my family, yeah, Irish
Catholic. Irish Italian Catholic, yeah.
Jenna Brown: Got it, got it, got it. Blessed.
Erin Lindstrom: all of the cousins and then all of our family friends also, like everyone has six kids, and then they have kids, and so I had this intergenerational babysitting empire, right?
And one of the [00:06:00] things that I did was, like, I figured out very quickly, like, how to be the babysitter that they wanted, like, how to be the best, and it was by going above and beyond, not like crazy, crazy, but I would clean up after the kids went to bed. They didn't ask me to. They're like, "Eat my snacks.
Thank you so much for being here," and I was like, "No problem. Also, thank you for the DustBuster. Let me get all of these crumbs. Let me like, put everything back so that when they come home, the experience is like, 'Oh my God, this is amazing.'" It took me 10 minutes before I then laid on their couch and ate their snacks and watched movies, right?
Once the kids were in bed. But for them, it was, like, life-changing. And for the moms in particular, they would come home and be like, "Oh my God," "thank you so much." Because there's the invisible labor that kind of happens that you're not delegating, but someone has to do it. And so I had two choices.
One, leave it there so that they could do it when they come home. They told me that was fine. Or like, take care of it, and I would just take care of it and then be invited back, and you become the one that they want, right? And so to me that is the same thing, same game that I'm doing over here, there's two different ways to support people.
[00:07:00] There's to do what they ask, and then there's to do what's actually required to create the situation that they want. And so with having that kind of lens, I don't think we're doing anything crazy. this isn't wild. It's not about going beyond boundaries or out of scope or anything like that.
It's just really about thinking about our clients' desires and their experience of working with us. That's what I care about. So yes, we're gonna check the boxes. We're gonna get things done. Anyone can do that. It's not that hard. What not everyone does is actually think ahead of what else would be helpful, what's coming next, what can I see that's coming up for you that you might not be thinking of 'cause you're juggling your own balls and being on top of that.
And I think that is kind of, what makes the difference. And when you're in that messy middle period of that 250K where you're... it's like sink or swim in that you, you already are swimming, so it's like you're treading water, and it's like, "Can I swim enough to get out of this far enough that I can support other people and like, pay for what I need to keep growing?
Or is [00:08:00] this just the me show?" Which is there's nothing bad about that. It just... It's what do you want in this season, and how do we get there? And so there's this moment of you really have to evaluate, like, how you're running things in that moment, who, who is on your team, and not just in your business, but in your home too.
For many of us, the most helpful hire you can actually make is home support, and then you can throw your emails together. It's fine. Right? You're, you're kind of, choosing in that moment, and a lot of it depends on what's available to you, how you're thinking about growth- and I think there's different ways to hire a team where sometimes people think of operations as like a cost.
This is how much it costs to run my business. I think about them as like, how can we grow with these people in these spaces? What's the most important to get off m- my plate, your plate, so that you have more space to think and to be doing what you wanna do? And then also, what should they actually be doing that's gonna help me move the needle, not just like moving boxes for the sake of moving boxes?
We [00:09:00] don't need complexity just for fun
Jenna Brown: Yes, yes, and yes. Can I share for a
second? I just wanna share for my kind of journey because I tried all of the things. I'm a three-line in human design, meaning
Erin Lindstrom: Me too.
Jenna Brown: do it all first, and then I'll just report back and be like, "That was a waste," or, "That was great," which is so annoying. But anyway, your, uh, your three li- your three lines here to report what works and what doesn't.
It's no secret, I've talked about this a million times, but that like 20, 30K month vibe, I was in for years, and I feel like I just tried 85 million things that would be like, "This is the thing that gets me out of here." And when I look back, there's definitely codes that I'm like, this is how I popped out of that.
And one of them was, like first and foremost, everybody listening, was like you have to think differently. So if you were like me, I like jumped way too soon going into let's live off of my business. I had my first 10K month, and I was like, "My husband's [00:10:00] retired." Good, good thinking. Anyways, and I have three fucking kids and live in Sedona.
It ain't cheap. Anyways, and so that created so much pressure of course, because I'm over here thinking 10K comes straight into my pocket, but that's not how a business owns and actually should run and operate, and but it was, like, too late. I was already running that way. So at it really in that stretch of time, I had to start living off of 50% of what the company was bringing in, and it was a whole rewiring of like I think a lot of people, depending on what business you're running, especially for online, we just think it's all profit 'cause that's kind of how it's...
I mean, great marketing is like, "I had a
Erin Lindstrom: Sure.
Jenna Brown: but like also I only took home 50K of that, and most of it went in savings. My life actually didn't change even 1%. But it sounds really cool, you know? But I was like, everything that comes into my company now, 20% of that is going back into the company, and I look at it a little bit differently.
So if you're in that stage listening, you're like, [00:11:00] "I'm chilling at that 20 to 25K or 20 to 30K months," I can almost guarantee you one of those blocks is if you are thinking everything that comes into the company is mine. Every time you go to invest in your company and/or hire a team, it's going to feel like a personal loss to you because you are assuming every dollar that comes into your company is yours, which it fucking isn't.
Do you think Target's CEO is bringing home all of Target's money? No. There are costs that are required to run a company. And so anyways, one of those mindset shifts we can just get you right off the bat, if you're like, "I've been hovering around this for so long," is are you still acting like you're a babysitter who work- who's working under the table?
Or are you acting like a fucking CEO? A CEO knows they have business expenses. Anyway, so if you're already there, now you're thinking, "Cool." So that was one of the shifts I had to make, but then it was like, cool, now, like- Who do I hire? Which also was years of me trying on different things. [00:12:00] So I wanna share that too so that then people listening, and you can bring in your thoughts on this, and, like, where you guys come in.
But for me, I had hired... I'm like, "What is everybody doing right now?" They're hiring a VA and an OBM. I did that. I hired a VA. I hired an OBM. I hired people that I knew and tried to train them in all of my things, and pay them, you know, a cheaper rate. I hired a full-ass agency. I hired... I don't know. What else are people doing?
Erin Lindstrom: Dude, like everything. Then, yeah, then it's like full-time, part-time, employees, contractors, my sister like or my friend, this person who's like close to me versus a stranger. There's many different kind of combinations that you can make, and it's like tricky to find in my, like experience and opinion, to find like the perfect combination.
Because what you're doing, especially when you have different experts like from all different areas, is you are creating a new job for yourself which is the manager.
Jenna Brown: Which
Erin Lindstrom: And [00:13:00] yeah.
Jenna Brown: back to the thing we just said
Erin Lindstrom: Yes, yes. And then the question is do, do you want that job?
Jenna Brown: No.
Erin Lindstrom: Some people do. Right.
Jenna Brown: you don't. I like, I want to scream through... Maybe some
Erin Lindstrom: Yeah. Some people do, some don't
Jenna Brown: people that are listening to this probably do. Maybe they think they do, but I always felt like, one, I didn't wanna be responsible for people's whole entire lives. I never want... I already have three kids and a husband, and a whole life I'm responsible for.
I wasn't over here also trying to employ with full-time employees and insurance and all this shit.
That never was a motivating factor for me, which some people it is. So, that tells you a lot if it is. If you're like, "I wanna change people's lives through hiring them." I li- you are one of those people, hence why you have
Erin Lindstrom: Yeah.
Jenna Brown: but I'm not.
And I was just like, I'm just trying to be a creative fairy and make shit and just coach people and do my thing, and I think that kind of comes into like, your genius zone. I had ran many companies where eventually as you scale, you start moving your proximity back, [00:14:00] right? So a great, quote-unquote, business coaching strategy thing would be, "Okay, now it's time for you to be a CEO," and what that means to most people is now you're gonna take your hands out of everything.
You're gonna stop coaching. Everything is gonna be compulsive, and now your job is just to manage all of your team.
Erin Lindstrom: Right.
Jenna Brown: Fuck that shit,
Erin Lindstrom: Yeah, no.
Jenna Brown: not for me. Not for me. All I wanted to do, and I've done that before, and hated that when I ran my nonprofit, all I wanted to do was I wanna stay in the creative process.
I wanna cr- keep making things and creating things, and I wanna be coaching. I'm a coach. I love to coach.
Erin Lindstrom: Totally.
Jenna Brown: there is that weird... Can you speak to that, of that awkward space that you've seen me or other people go through of I'm letting this go because I don't wanna hold it, but also... You know, that
Erin Lindstrom: Yeah, totally. People, I think hear the advice, right, is as you're scaling, you're gonna step away and replace yourself in the business. And what you're, like, alluding to is that [00:15:00] yeah, people are taught to get rid of themselves in delivery, but when intimacy is a core value, like for you, like that's not actually right.
So there are different blueprints that you can take. If you read Traction and these books like about scaling, you'll hear about the visionary and the implementer. And so most CEOs like move towards that visionary space, and then they're like, "Okay, who's my implementer? My VA. Great. My VA is gonna do this."
And a virtual assistant, like great, but VA can mean 18 different things. Online business manager can mean 40 different things. Everyone has their own expectations and like ideas in their head and took whatever course where they learned the thing. So that doesn't mean a standard thing. And I think the hope is that when we hire one of these people to be the integrator, to handle the things that like need to get done and get them done, there's no like actual shared expectation of language around that.
So it's more of a transition than it Could have to be. And that's very hard because you're then saying yes to teaching someone your entire business. And [00:16:00] this is where like, it gets interesting because Number one, we have AI now, so it's "Oh, can AI just do this for me?"
We have offshores VAs where it's like, "Can I pay someone $5 an hour to do this?" We have a $20 VA. You have $100 an hour VA. You can have a $200 an hour OBM. Some people think that's expensive, some people think that's cheap. So there's just so much possible here, and what it all essentially like, comes down to is knowing what you want, and again, the experience that you're looking for, and being able to articulate that to someone.
And then you are deciding, am I training this person up? Are you taking that on as your next program that you're creating is actually an internal team training program? Or are you hiring someone who's already at that level and bringing them in? And so, the idea of what's expensive, I think, also gets very like, weird in this space, 'cause not only are you rethinking what's mine and what's the business's, but you also have to think about what does investment mean when it comes to people, team, and tools?
and this math is not like one plus one equals two, because if you hire the right person, oh, my God, one plus one is 11. [00:17:00] If you hire the wrong person, one plus one is actually a negative situation where you just lost your time, the work wasn't done, your clients are pissed. Like, It can go so wrong, too, not to scare people, but the spectrum of like, things that can happen is quite wide, and all of this comes down to trust.
So, you're also working with another person. You are relying on them to do things. You're hoping that they will meet your expectations and be honest about what they say they're gonna do, and that they'll have the follow-through that you hear on calls. But it takes time to like, get to know a person and to make sure that is what they're actually doing.
And a lot of times, another one of these things that happens in that messy middle is these weird relationship dynamics happen, and I say this as someone who has had them. But, like, when it's you and one other person, it can get a little funky. Because you rely on each other, you become friends, but you also need them to do their work.
But you care about them, but family stuff and, like... So it's interesting. The level of healing work that you've done, like, how not codependent are you, really [00:18:00] comes to play at this level, too. Because it stops being just a you game, and it is like, a us game. And then you get to decide what does us look like.
And what's the not only safest next step for you to take, but the one that you can really build with. The one that gives you what you need to feel like, "Okay, I got this. I'm in trust, so I can go create and work all my magic."
Jenna Brown: I love that. I feel too, it's like at that, at least when I was hiring you guys, so like a little bit further along than what we're saying here, like more than double,
Erin Lindstrom: Yeah
Jenna Brown: I was also like in a stage where I'm like, there's just so many things that I could hire out,
Erin Lindstrom: Yes.
Jenna Brown: And that is like the beauty of hiring you guys because there's, there's all of the things there.
I was like, I need my podcast managed, I need the backend systemy things done. I need client support done. Like that alone has just changed my life of you guys talking to clients for me.
Um,
There's just so many things, and obviously each of those could be things I trained or different [00:19:00] people that I hire.
But ultimately, there's something also I wanna say that I experienced working with you guys that I was like, "Whoa, this is totally different." Okay. So I have obviously hired a lot of people over the I don't know, 13 years of being an entrepreneur from employees to agencies, blah, blah, blah. And if I hire an employee full or part-time or contractor, I could spend so much time teaching them shit and being like, "Here's the whole back end of my business, and now let me hand it over to you."
But here's the thing, nobody like loves my business the way that I love my business. And no one is ev- I don't care who you're hiring, they're not gonna be as committed to your business as you. My other issue is every time ever anyone for the entirety of my life I hire them, one, they end up hiring me, including Erin.
Erin Lindstrom: Mm-hmm. Yep.
Jenna Brown: And two, they all end up hiring me. And two, my field is so naturally [00:20:00] expansive, so people just start thinking so big. And then they're immediately like they outgrew whatever it is that they're doing, and they're like, "I'm starting my own business." And even though I try not to hire like entrepreneurial
people to be my house cleaners or to be like...
They all end up becoming entrepreneurial because I'm showing them what's possible. I'm like, "Girl, I also used to clean houses." I'm like,
Erin Lindstrom: Yes. "
Jenna Brown: Hi, that's my story." And they're like, "Fuck, if you can do this, I can do this." And then boom, they're taking off, which I love that for me, and also that's a conundrum when it comes to hiring people because they're constantly evolving and growing just by being in my world.
Okay, I'm saying that because I've had so many times where it's like, "All right, here I go. I am leveling up." And I'm looking also at the vulnerability of letting things go. That's another thing that we- I'm sure we could talk about for three days is like high-performing women, we can actually do it all, but we definitely shouldn't.
And so then we're like, "I'm letting this go. Look, I'm being vulnerable. I'm letting this go." And then the person's "Cool, I'm leaving." And we're like, "Ugh, it's just easier if I just do it 'cause this is exhausting [00:21:00] to train and release." Okay. Why I'm sharing that is 'cause even with working with Erin and the team, one of her team members left, and guess what happened?
Nothing. Because then the, the team I was just like, "Oh my God, this person's leaving." But then Erin and the other team members just swoop in, and they got it, and they know the systems, and I'm not training anybody on anything. They know what they're doing. They know my business. There was no lag. There was no like, "Oh my God, we're all...
The house is on fire." And there was no repercussions in my business because of that. Because one, that's on Erin, right?
Erin Lindstrom: That is my problem, yes. But totally, like that's the risk that
I'm
taking on, right? Yeah
Jenna Brown: that is so not spoken about in this industry is I didn't... I don't want to have those conversations. I don't want to have the hiring and firing conversations.
I find that exhausting. I don't want to have the, the conversations of "You've outgrown me? Okay," "Bless and release. Now I have to go fucking train 14 other people to [00:22:00] replace You
You know what I mean? And so, just even that alone
Erin Lindstrom: Yeah.
Jenna Brown: is worth so much
Erin Lindstrom: Totally. It's having a support system and not just a support person. That's what I was saying before, right? With that one-on-one there are some... There are pros. I'm not coming at anyone who's in a one-on-one relationship right now with their support person. There's so many wonderful things about it, and it is tricky when it's you and one other person, 'cause if they're sick, if they have a family thing that comes up ah, what are we doing?
It's back on you, right? And so, like, I've kind of, built almost with a village model in mind, where it's like my team knows that we're all humans. The culture that I'm building is speak up when you are overwhelmed. I wanna know your capacity. I wanna know if you're overwhelmed, not because you're in trouble, because I'm gonna look for like, okay, how did we get here?
Like Is this a communication thing? Is this a last-minute idea? Did you have life stuff come up this week? Did I accidentally give you another project? I wanna know what's happening. And then we figure it out, not just for this moment, but for the future. So if you need help, you raise your hand, and [00:23:00] either I can help you, or we have someone else on the team who has capacity, and we all know how to do most of the things.
We can hop in. We're platform agnostic, so, like, yep, got your back. You can be sick just assign it to me. I got it. And we meet as a team, and we talk through every single client twice a week, so everyone has an idea of what's happening with other people. We don't know all of the details of every single person, 'cause you don't need to.
But we have enough to know like, "Oh, Jenna, got it. She has a mastermind." "Oh, she needs the recording? No problem."
Jenna Brown: again. Okay.
Erin Lindstrom: Right. Yeah. Well, and I think that's another interesting thing is the speed at which you can move. For a lot of entrepreneurs you have momentum, you have clarity, and you're ready to run.
Not every support system or support person can run with you. And again, going back to that one-on-one dynamic, you're asking one person to run with you. You're asking them to manage it, to figure out all of the holes in the plan, and to go do it.
Jenna Brown: Mm-hmm.
Erin Lindstrom: Which is okay, and I wanna hug that person 'cause it's a lot to hold, and they wanna do a good job for you.
If this is a good relationship you're both trying to be [00:24:00] great to each other. So the CEO doesn't wanna put too much on too fast, and the support person doesn't wanna say no, but also is so overwhelmed and doesn't know how they're gonna do this. So then we're, like, not totally speaking the truth, and I think one of the things that we can kind of bring to the plate is like, "Hi, I'm a bridge."
"Tell me the vision," right? And then we have team who can implement, and when they're overwhelmed, it's not your problem. It's mine. And so they come to me, and I'm like, "Okay, let's just think this out," right? Sometimes you need someone else to listen to you, and the busy CEO who wants to go be their visionary self or support their clients or has their kids thing they don't need to talk about this again.
It's nice to have someone else who can help solve the problems versus them all coming back to you. And
so, that's the...
Jenna Brown: just nice, it is the game. If I could just... Even I think tho- those of you that are listening, you're probably a lot like me. I'm so obviously sensitive. I'm literally psychic. Unfortunately, when I see your face and you tell me you're not overwhelmed, and I can tell you I know, like I will always know.
I always can tell when someone [00:25:00] is overwhelmed. I can always tell when someone's going through a hard time. Not to mention, I'm always the person that people are like, "You're just so nice and loving. Let me just like emotionally dump on you." And I'm like, "I actually don't wanna hold, I don't wanna hold space for that."
You know what I'm saying? And so there's this element of now that I'm thinking about it, I'm like, that actually is such a hack because when I've had teams in the past, it's so emotionally extensive. And if I think about it, I'm like, I really need that capacity to be used for my clients
Erin Lindstrom: Exactly. Yes
Jenna Brown: those are the people that are paying me, and I'm supposed to be paying you.
Yeah
Erin Lindstrom: or your kids, right? Like your family, your friends, like we all show up and are great at relationships and you shouldn't have to put that much work into the support one. Like an ideal situation, support can just support you. And if they're
Jenna Brown: and it's does this feel heavy to hold or is, does it feel like it's holding me? And that has changed a lot. Oh, and just to mention too, if anybody else is like me and [00:26:00] you're psychotic and change your mind every four seconds, um, literally as I was talking to Erin before I hired them, I was like, "Listen, I've hired a lot of agency type people in the past, and what they all do is they try to put me into their system.
I'm a number in their system where they're like, 'What are you launching a year from now?'" And I'm like, "I don't know. I might know what I'm doing three months from now, but I'm probably gonna change my mind 20 times on the way." And she's like, "No worries I've got you. We'll figure it out. We will adapt with you." And that really has been true for me because that was something even a couple of my clients since they've hired you, I keep tweaking them of are you trying to make someone else's job easier?
Erin Lindstrom: Yeah, there's like an unlearning that happens when they start working with us.
Jenna Brown: doing it for so long, like apologizing for our creative process.
And that is like such a huge thing for me as a business coach, is I'm constantly putting people back, like taking away the programming of you have to be a business owner, quote unquote, and being like, yes, [00:27:00] you own a business, but first and foremost you're a creative, and how often are you stifling your creative process or energy because you're apologizing that it's messy, or you're apologizing that you changed your mind.
But that's actually what makes it fucking brilliant, is like you're creating something as you go. But then if someone's over here being like, "Hey, do you know what you're creating in 15 months from now?" It's
Erin Lindstrom: yeah. And can you fill out this form about it? Thanks.
Jenna Brown: Yeah. I'm like, I evolve every two days into an entirely new human, so
like how am I gonna know what I'm doing 15 months from now?
I might have a general idea because I've been doing this long enough to see there's a, a process that I usually create within,
but like ultimately that is, that is actually worth its price in gold. Because again, it's so many female entrepreneurs, I would argue all of them, are actually artists and creatives at heart, and then they like think they have to learn how to be like, like change all of that about themselves to be successful.
And I'm [00:28:00] actually, that's the thing that's gonna make you successful. But you just need the right support behind your creative process to make it go further. Like, how many women are saying right now listening to this, " I just need to like sell and launch one thing from now until the end of time and l- and do the same quarterly launch process like every male or female who looks like a man tells me I need to do"?
Like literally how many of you are doing that and then you are like literally, maybe you do do that, but maybe you wanna do things in between and you're like, "Oh, nope, gotta stick to the plan."
Erin Lindstrom: Yeah. Yes.
Jenna Brown: at the end of the day,
Erin Lindstrom: Yes.
Yes
Jenna Brown: do you have a team that can actually hold those... If we look at my business, like I do have those things that are like they're quarterly or they're bi-yearly, and they're the same offers and the same products, and we zhuzh them and make them fun and fancy and whatever.
But then I have the pop-up shit that I'm like, I'll be like quiet for two weeks, be right back, I'm dying.
And then I'll come back and be like, "And I'm taking over the world, thank you."
And then like, Let's go."
Erin Lindstrom: [00:29:00] Yes, and you, you get to ebb and flow. I think people think they learn that they need to be, become manageable, meaning "I'm not gonna have crazy ideas. I just won't tell the team. I'm gonna be responsible and not mess them up." What you actually need is a really good manager who can meet you where you are and let you be you and in your magic, and meet you there and take care of it.
Jenna Brown: Yo, what you just said is a c- I have goosebumps on my whole body. Like, how many times, ladies, have we been told that we need to become manageable?
Erin Lindstrom: Yeah. Yeah, like you don't need to make this pretty for me. I'm cool. Some of my clients, like it's one week they're crying because, oh my gosh, like they have feelings, and good. I'm not trying to make anyone be a robot. We're here for the human interaction. So if your launch went one way and you have feelings about it, like it's okay to be disappointed the next week, right?
And then it's also okay to like still have the like, "Okay, I got it. This is where we're going." And it's okay to be like, "Actually, I know I said that yesterday, but throw it away." And as long as we have like healthy communication and uh, we start to learn you, right? I understand that [00:30:00] oh, Jenna's being quiet.
That's fine. It's the like quiet before the storm, like something big is a-brewing. And don't worry, we'll have work in a second.
Jenna Brown: But my favorite is every time I'm quiet I'm like, "I'm never gonna be inspired again."
I've been doing this for 13 years and I still, every time I'm like, "I'll never have an inspirational hit the rest of
Erin Lindstrom: Yeah. Well, you know what? And I wish that more entrepreneurs would allow themselves to have the ebbs and flows because you are a human and a being and a CEO, and it's okay for you to be part human in that. There's a level of responsibility in showing up and taking care of your feelings, right?
You're not coming in like, "Oh my God, it's all your fault." There's no blame. There's just "I feel this way." And it's okay, cool. It, what it allows us to do is actually connect with your truth so that when something is off, we can be like, "Are you sure you wanna do that?" Versus someone who's always presenting like, "Here's what we're doing."
Okay. So it is actually more helpful for us to like, hear the ups and downs to like, understand what is true and what's not. It allows us to start discerning and to be able to actually give you [00:31:00] feedback, which I think is very helpful.
But having real feedback from your team doesn't happen with a certain level of support, and that's okay. Or it does, but do you actually take it? Do they... Are they informed in business growth, or are they a task doer? Because a task doer is gonna have a very different opinion on whether or not they should do something based on whether or not it's complicated, not is this driving growth and is this in the highest good based on what you've told me about your vision?
And that's what I'm solving for, and then the team can go and implement all that stuff.
Jenna Brown: Yes, I
Erin Lindstrom: And so there's nothing wrong with ebbs and flows. There's nothing wrong with going fast and being creative and even being a little bit messy. I'm not scared of messy. I'm
scared of bullshit.
Jenna Brown: I'm scared bullshit.
Erin Lindstrom: That's what I don't want, the hardest person to support, actually, is the one who's spending too much time on social listening to coaches and reels, and hearing the feedback and being like, "Well, I'm gonna do this now," or, "My friend said this. Well, I heard that," da da da da.
And if you can't connect with yourself uh-oh, that's where it gets really challenging for a team to follow, because I need you in leadership. Leadership doesn't mean [00:32:00] that you have no feelings. It means that you're in tune with them and holding yourself through that, and then we can take, take it from there.
Jenna Brown: Okay, which I've, I love that you're pointing this out, 'cause now that you're saying this, I actually think around that plateau mark, that is one of the things you have to not be doing to get out of it.
Like, you have to learn 'cause then people will swing to the opposite pendulum where they're like, "I unfollowed every single person on social media."
And I'm like, "That is also not
leadership." Like-
Erin Lindstrom: the pendulum, yeah.
Jenna Brown: I'm like, if you can't receive other people's ideas without getting swayed, then that is a you problem, right? I can scroll social media all day. I mean, I don't, but I could, and I can just be like, "That's for them and this is for me." But I remember at that phase, I was like, "You're right. I just need to go all funnels, all evergreen, all ads, all blah, blah, blah," whatever. And so something I wanna point out there is exactly what you just said. So don't come to Erin if [00:33:00] you're not in your leadership, side note. But that is part of the journey right there, is being like, in, uh, in my experience, that leadership has been do I trust my own process, and what is my creative process?
Because my creative process is pretty predictable at this point. Like I said, I'll go on a lull, and every time I'm like, "I'm a failure. I'm the scum of the earth." I mean, these are just my private thoughts on a podcast. But I'm like, "I'm never gonna have a
creative idea." I love when I think the thought, "I'm never gonna have a creative idea again," 'cause I just start laughing.
I had it this morning, actually. I just started laughing out loud 'cause I'm like, "You're... Are you ever not gonna be annoying? Is this just what we're gonna do forever?" And it's like part of my creative process is that self-doubt, and then it's almost if I'm a painter, I always tell people, I'm like, if I...
I view myself as an artist first. If I was a painter, would I just be like, "You know what you should do? Just sit around and wait for inspiration to hit before you go paint"? Fuck no. I'm gonna be like, "Go out there and just start painting [00:34:00] random shit on a canvas, and something will come to you." And so that's why I'm constantly creating stuff, even if I'm throwing it away, getting rid of it, changing it 45 million times.
You'll never see me take my foot off the gas of creation, even if my team behind the scenes knows "Ooh, she's in a all rough space. She's trying to figure it out." But I know I'm not gonna figure it out unless I have some pedal to the metal. But that is my... I think that's a lot of people's creative process that maybe they're not aware of.
But I wanna talk for a second about the North Pole/South Pole thing,
Erin Lindstrom: Mm-hmm.
Jenna Brown: because one thing I've noticed, 'cause I've worked with hundreds of entrepreneurs,
Erin Lindstrom: Yeah
Jenna Brown: and you were like, "The hardest entrepreneurs for me to work with." The hardest entrepreneurs for me to work with are people who have team who are really fucking logical.
So logical that they're like, "Well, excuse me, you s- we're already on the launch plan for December, and it's June, and,
Erin Lindstrom: Yes Yes they start to overcompensate and become more manageable in their [00:35:00] own process for the team, and their life becomes about the team's happiness.
Jenna Brown: And I'm like, "And also, what about yours, my friend?"
You know? So I really appreciate that of my clients that work with you- is because I think we make a great team for people because I, I don't think it's either/or. There are people that feel... I was a person that felt way more comfortable spending $85 million on...
That's an exaggeration, but like hundreds of thousands
Erin Lindstrom: Yeah, $85,000.
Jenna Brown: Yeah, on... Just to be clear, everyone's "Wow, she invested $85 million?"
Um, on coaching because I love that personal expansion process, and I love being held inside of personal expansion containers.
Erin Lindstrom: Mm-hmm.
Jenna Brown: that just to me has been so valuable for my growth.
And for me, my edge was investing in that more backend support, which was, like, hiring people in my house, hiring people, you know, a house manager, a chef, [00:36:00] a house cleaner, a, a whole backend team. Like, all of those things were harder for me to stretch my capacity, but I will tell you, it wasn't one or the other.
It wasn't like I said, "I'm gonna stop personally growing, and so I'm gonna invest all this in backend team," which sometimes people do. They're like, "I'm done working with you, Jenna. I'm gonna go work only with a team." And I'm like, "Cool. You'll be back." Or vice versa. If you're only investing all of this money into coaching and you have no backend support, it's like this awkward growth.
So can you talk about that? Do your spiel on that.
Erin Lindstrom: Yeah Like where to begin? Something that's like on the tip of my tongue that I just need to say, like being in your leadership is different than being perfect. Doesn't have to be perfect. And there's different types of support. And again, like I said before, you're a human, you're a being, you're a CEO.
One of the iterations of my business was like, uh, I had human being club, which was like human, being, CEO. We would check in on all three. Like how is your human? Like literally, how is your body? How are you [00:37:00] feeling today when you woke up? Did your kids, miss the bus and you're stressed? Okay, great, tell me about your human experience.
Your being to me is more like the spiritual side. Like, all of that can be happening and like I'm a magical goddess in a forest too. Like you know, full spectrum, right? And then the CEO is a role in your company, and like how that experience is going is different... It can be different than your human experience and your being experience.
Like it's a whole nother thing that you're doing. And so thinking about what support you need, I think, you know, some of it is like seasonal, what you need in your business. But to your point, like th- there is something about getting personal support for you, the human, being, CEO, that is going through this, and then to be supported.
So having someone actually taking things off your plate versus someone helping you have a bigger plate. Those are like two different things, and I think like your genius is helping someone have a bigger plate. And like I went through this uh, I'm not special here. I went through all of these team transformations and relationships as well with my own team.
It's just like a real [00:38:00] meta experience. And like for me, it's like I'm being the CEO. Like I understand like the business growth stuff, and it's still very helpful to talk to someone else who also gets that, but can, who can also hold space for the human experience that I'm having- Mm-hmm ... and like the, to get out of the patterns that we have.
Your team is not here to be your therapist. Your team is going through things with you, so like they're witnessing you through transformation, and they hold space like in a very specific way, but their job is to get the work done. I think a coach like has a different job, which is to move you through the transformation.
And so having kind of that North Pole, South Pole support, where like I'm thinking South Pole is like kind of like the on Earth, like we're getting things done. But then also having the heaven side, if like we're doing heaven and Earth here. Like the heaven side of like pulling you into becoming who you are next, because this is a transformational experience.
Like growing your business is that, whether you want it to be or not. Sorry, it is. Especially [00:39:00] for us doing this in like the personal brand way, if you're using your face and your likeness to grow something, and then you're hiring people, like this is... It's both simple and complex at the same time.
There's dichotomy, and like you need different kinds of support, and it's okay, and it's actually helpful to have both Some people, you know, will hire a coach and then be disappointed, "Because I didn't get anything out of it. I thought she was gonna do-" do all this stuff.
She was never gonna do anything except hold space for your transformation and support you through it. And on the other side of that, I think some people look to their team and are like, "Ugh, they don't, they don't get it." And it's well, they're not supposed to get it. They're taking orders and doing them.
So, to know where you are, like, there's just such a self-awareness piece that I think becomes really important at that 250 to 500K and beyond, where like, you need to know what you need so you can get it from the right person in the right place, and not mess up what you're building at the same time.
You're allowed to be a messy human, and you're self-aware enough to know what you're bringing to team and what you're bringing to your coaches, right, and into your masterminds. And same with me, like I [00:40:00] know what I'm bringing to my team is feedback, and what I'm going to scream into Telegram because I need to just get it out and process it in a different way.
And so, that discernment piece and the discernment muscle is what you have to grow to be the leader. It doesn't mean you need to manage a team perfectly, right? It's the discernment, knowing yourself and what you need and how to get it.
Jenna Brown: Yes. And I feel like too, there is such a maturity in that, and, and like again, when we're, when I'm thinking of those codes or thi- like lessons that got me out of that space, it was really just like me obviously operating as a different version of myself, 'cause that's always what the next F level is.
You're like, "Oh my God, how didn't I see that before?" But like it's kind of like back when before I had like friends in real life, like I expected my husband to be everything. Like it, like it'd be like me being like my husband's gonna be my best girlfriend. He's gonna talk about romance novels with me.
Like he's gonna like he's gonna do everything in the house. He's gonna raise, raise my kids with me. [00:41:00] He's gonna be my lover, my like m- everything. And it's that's so exhausting for one person to have that. And I feel like also it's like an immaturity thing, where it's like now the older I get, I'm like, "Well, my husband can't be my girlfriend."
He is my best friend, but he's not my girlfriend. We're not shooting shit talking about like random stuff from, you know, like inappropriate things I wouldn't be telling my husband. Like I'm not ...Sorry if you're listening to this. Anyways, but like I'm not having those conversations with him because we don't have all the same hobbies.
You know what I'm saying? And then it's just like there's this discernment aspect of like I think a lot of people at that, again, 200, 250K mark, when I'm with them, like coaching them, they really think they can grow to a next level with the same level of investment. And I'm like, "No other business would ever think that."
Just because we live in this really weird fucking world of, which is great, I love this world, [00:42:00] of personal brand and coaching and like whatever that looks like for you to grow your brand online, it's "Oh, well there's no overhead." I'm like, "It- there's a lot of overhead actually, because you have to con- continue to grow as a person."
If you had a sub shop, you don't really have to grow as a person, to be honest. But if you are a personal brand, like you have to continue to grow as a person, and you're gonna need to be held and supported in that growth, whether that's having a therapist. I- when I say on your team, I don't mean like on salary.
But like having a therapist in your, in your back pocket having a body worker in your back pocket, getting massages. None of those things are like the sub shop owner doesn't need to do that. They're probably putting all of their overhead into, uh, employees and insurance and
Erin Lindstrom: Right, right. You're playing a different game,
Jenna Brown: They're playing a different game, but all games of scaling is the same.
And if you hear anybody say, "When I scaled my business," it always was because they [00:43:00] were like, "I went all in." What do you think all in is? Doing the same thing you've done and then just expecting different results? No. Just because something felt stretchy to you at one point, let's say you have one coach or you're like, "I have a mastermind I'm in," or "I have a VA," I can almost guarantee you if you're listening to it this, this, this far, you probably have outgr- like that was an edge for you at one point, but it's not an edge anymore.
And so you're not actually growing. And I'm like, when I look back, I invested from this space of overflow where it was like every area I don't just need support in, that I want to be supported in, I will support myself in. And guess what? The money just like it didn't come the next day, but it showed up because I bet on myself that way
Erin Lindstrom: Totally. Yeah.
Jenna Brown: Yeah
Erin Lindstrom: The overflow piece is super interesting, and I was thinking that as you were talking about the relationship and not looking to your husband for everything, right? That is survival. If you only have one person, you have to get through it together. Great. [00:44:00] And abundance is having multiple people.
You're in a village, right? To take it back there. And so you can have more than one thing fulfilling your different needs, and it's the same... Yes, and it's the same. A lot of times we're talking about that 250 to 500, it's like the survival to overflow change in your business, right? And getting over that it does require you to pattern interrupt a bit, and that's different than being irresponsible and just going and swiping your credit card for whatever.
That's not what I'm saying. And there's room for responsibility. I'm not asking anyone to throw away responsibility. But there is some risk that you are taking when you do go all in to have something different. And that can be hard. I hadn't invested in coaching in a couple years until I decided to invest in coaching again.
B- and guess where I was stuck. You know what I mean? Right in that space. And,
Jenna Brown: talk about that. Let's talk about that
Erin Lindstrom: Okay.
Sure
Jenna Brown: making the plate bigger, because when Erin, like I said earlier, everybody I hire hires me. It just happens. Anyways, so I was [00:45:00] like, "I wonder when Erin's gonna hire me" and then she did. But like that con- like your experience with capacity, like you have all of this back end team support, but then the capacity, the plate getting bigger for you, which now it definitely has in
Erin Lindstrom: The print is definitely bigger. Yeah.
Jenna Brown: way bigger.
How does it feel? What were the, like the struggles there? Talk to us about that.
Erin Lindstrom: It feels good. Question one, like definitely headed in the right direction. Uh, it feels like my plate is bigger, but there's almost less on it, if that makes sense. There's more white space on my plate, too, which is I think we all worry that like I'm just gonna have more on my plate, not a bigger plate.
But like it feels like my plate is bigger, and there's the right amount of things on it, and I can see what's coming and what's moving. And it's a multi, multi-dimensional situation, right?
Jenna Brown: Love it
Erin Lindstrom: And I think I had to do a lot of work. My, my story is not I had a husband making a lot of money and launched a business, and it didn't matter if it made [00:46:00] money.
Like that... Cool, if that is your story. That just was not mine. My story, my story is more along the lines of oh, she had six figures of student loans. She had a baby, got married, had another baby. Marriage didn't work out. He's in the Navy. We're only making $35,000. I can get a job, but I'm gonna make $11 an hour, 'cause I negotiated up from 11 to teach...
Or I negotiated up to 11 from nine to teach preschool, but then I would have to pay for my baby to go to school, so I'm gonna make $2 an hour when all is said and done to pay off the six figures of student loans. So, like the math didn't math for me. And I had to get a divorce, like for me in my situation, and I had to figure out like how I was gonna do this.
So for me, I felt like the only option was to double down on my business. This is the only math that was gonna math for me. And I had started like on the coaching. That was my entryway in here. But at that point, I was like, "I'm just gonna listen to what would be helpful for other people.
Like, how can I serve them?" And copy was like the first thing that I was like, [00:47:00] "Oh, I didn't know everyone couldn't write." I know that's so silly, but like I really didn't. I also didn't know you could make money writing. I heard that was a one in a million shot to be a famous author, right? But other than that, didn't know there was any other opportunity.
So when I started playing with copy I realized oh, I have a skill here that I can leverage to help other people make more money. And if I can help them make more money, I make more money. So like I could see how I could fit in, which, great, so helpful to get me through the next 10 years, right?
To create a multi six-figure business, to have independence, to move out, to have enough money to buy a house eventually, like to... Like I did the thing. And I did the thing the way that I knew how to do it, which is by surviving. And I think the biggest thing that I wanted to change was like, "Okay, we are done survi-" I literally checked the boxes, like we're okay now.
I used to not have enough money. I would wait for a client to pay me and get it in my other bank account that was negative. I had to bring it back to be positive so I could pay the [00:48:00] bills. Like it was a stealing from Peter to pay Paul like situation, right? That was like 10 years ago. So moving through like the healing I did, finding out I have ADHD, like there's lots of things that contributed, like all of the inner work and therapy and coaching and the personal transformation work I did got me all the way to, okay, you have a multi six-figure business.
The bills are always paid. There's always extra. Like what a fucking gift. And then from that place of okay- What if there's more? Or now what do I want? We've, we've done that, so, now what? And can I even let myself want more than this? Who does that make me? What does that make me? And that, in my case, has required extra support.
Maybe that sounds easy to some people, but there's, there's more transformation to be done of really unclenching and letting go of the survival pieces to like, be in receive, and to be in overflow you kinda let, gotta let go of the survival. And I'm so grateful for the survivor skills 'cause they got me so far.
Jenna Brown: Yeah.
Erin Lindstrom: Thank you. And, huh, what can this be like now? What [00:49:00] does support look like for me in the way that I provide support, right? It's gotta take your own medicine, and allow the receiving in the same ways, and invest in myself in ways that I know are needed or that I'm willing to risk. You know what I mean?
That I see the value, and so I'm gonna bet on myself and bet on my investment with this person, and go to this thing to show up and let's see what else we can keep creating.
Jenna Brown: Mm. I love that. Yeah, I feel like it's just been so cool to watch too because it's And just be a part of.
Erin Lindstrom: Yeah, and you can't like
Jenna Brown: does the same thing in that space where it's if I have more, it's mind registers it as heavy. Like it's gonna be heavier. It's more, it's more to manage.
Literally what
Erin Lindstrom: right. I'm literally building. What do you mean it's not gonna be harder and heavier,
right?
Jenna Brown: I'm like, What do you mean? We're just gonna have more fun. It's gonna be so great."
And you're like, "Cool, I don't know how," but it always happens that it's like we're expanding that capacity for more. We're letting go of the things that are no longer serving.
We're integrating into this whole other reality and looking at [00:50:00] where those survival pieces are at play still,
Erin Lindstrom: Yeah
Jenna Brown: where you've outgrown them, and then really choosing a new energetic. I always am just like, there is such an element of survival, in my opinion, for those listening, when we're talking about the 250...
I don't know why we chose that number, but I feel
like that number is just you're like, if you're there, you have mastered survival.
I love that for you. That's
Erin Lindstrom: I think it's the new 100K, honestly, in like this economy. Like 250 is the new I can breathe a little.
Jenna Brown: Yeah, 100%. And like in my, in my experience of childhood, it'd be like I could buy my kid a Lunchable for lunch. Like I never got
Erin Lindstrom: Absolutely. I went literally like part of my like building a business story is like putting things back at the grocery store when you get to the register to now like I don't have to care how much it is. It's fine.
Jenna Brown: 100%. Or like gas, like pe- I'm always like, I never know the gas price. I never look at grocery store prices. Like, all of those things, like if you're hitting those marks in life where you're like, "Oh, I just went to the..." For us, it's the fucking dentist. I don't know why the dentist is so much [00:51:00] money, but like the dentist or the vet, like things that I would like literally used to have a panic attack before of I don't have $400
Erin Lindstrom: I wouldn't go. Yeah, I had fillings I needed for four years 'cause like I don't have
$4,000. Yeah
Jenna Brown: And it's and now it's just oh, that's a weekly payment apparently to the dentist for my 18 family members. But anyways,
Erin Lindstrom: Right. You
Jenna Brown: it's but that is like, when you've hit that, you're no longer surviving, and so it's different coding.
And also, by the way, the entire world around you is coded for fucking survival,
Erin Lindstrom: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm
Jenna Brown: most, most peoples. And so like living in a different energetic is, it's a whole process, and one of those energetics is being held. So whether that energetic is 'cause if you think of survival, especially for high-performing women who also probably are neurodivergent and may be the oldest daughter.
Anyways if you think of us, like hyper-independence, [00:52:00] it is, was fucking amazing 'cause it got us out of situations that were dangerous and hard.
Erin Lindstrom: Yes. Yes
Jenna Brown: create an entire new reality for ourselves and for our kids, thank
Erin Lindstrom: Yep
Jenna Brown: And it made like in a whole new world, and then it's like you're almost like banging your head into the same wall so many times, and you're like, "I can tell I'm running into the same
Erin Lindstrom: Yeah.
Jenna Brown: Why can't I just go to the other side?" And I'm over here "Hi, it's overflow."
You're at overflow point. You have to join another energetic. And if we think of survival, we were told it's safe-- like it's not safe for anyone to hold us 'cause they're gonna let us down.
Erin Lindstrom: Absolutely. Yes.
Yes
Jenna Brown: the overflow energetic is actually, I'm gonna be held by every single angle, and I'm gonna continue to stretch my capacity to be held, whether that's hiring team, hiring house support, hiring mentors, hiring therapists, whatever.
Every one of those things, and when you make that decision, like at the beginning, when we're saying you're making it from the space of what makes me feel more held, not in the same survival technique of what [00:53:00] gives me more to hold,
Erin Lindstrom: Yes.
Jenna Brown: you change the whole game. You're playing a new game,
Erin Lindstrom: Totally. Totally. Yes.
I think it is more fun. It is more fun. More joy is available. There's more space on the plate for it, and there's something that happens, I think, at least for me with my journey through survival to like, "Okay, we're okay." I'm self-aware. I feel like I know what's happening.
I've been doing the work, da da da da da. And there's stuff that like, you just can't read the label on your own jar, no matter how good you are, no matter how smart you are or whatever. And yes, I think of our conversation with you when you were like, "Oh yeah, you're avoidant." And I was like, "I am not avoidant.
I'm anxious." And you were like, "Erin, I've literally never seen you anxious." And I was like, "You're right." I haven't been anxious in a couple years. I used to be, and I do avoidance with the joy and the space. It's a different thing. And so having someone to be able to walk with you as you're moving through those things and reflect it back to you you just can't do it yourself as much as you want to.
The most expensive mirror isn't gonna [00:54:00] show you what is happening
Jenna Brown: It's so freaking true. And also when you're a self-aware girly like we are, it's almost too I'm like you really need to hire people that are not just regular therapists because therapists, I can out therapi- therapize. You know what I'm
Erin Lindstrom: Yes.
Jenna Brown: I can out
therapy every therapist.
Erin Lindstrom: I do, yeah
Jenna Brown: I'm always just "Aren't I amazing?"
And they're
Erin Lindstrom: Yeah.
Jenna Brown: are amazing." And I'm like, "The fuck? I need you to
my deeper. I'm lying. Yeah. But it's like truth lying, so it's not real lying, but yeah. Like I
Erin Lindstrom: can spin a web.
Jenna Brown: right now, but I don't know I'm masking and I need you to call me out that I'm masking
Erin Lindstrom: Yes. Yes. It's a real high level thing. And honestly, like not to just like compliment both of us, but I think that's something we both can do, and it's actually very helpful to have like in a coach and as the person you're talking to on your team, like who can see and be like, "Yes, and are you just... Is this-- Maybe this'll feel different after you do that thing this afternoon that has nothing to do with this." Right? Like you want someone who can see, who can play tennis at the same level, like 'cause we are [00:55:00] like moving things back and forth, and yeah, playing with other people
Jenna Brown: think that if you are like a high-performing woman who may or may not be neurodivergent, like you need h- like those women on your team to be like, "I'm calling your bluff." You know? Like how many times, I've done that for you a million times, you've done that for me a million times. And all of my clients where I'm like, "I'm so sorry to be a dick right now, but you're in sabotage."
Erin Lindstrom: Yeah, literally.
It's
Jenna Brown: And I'm
Erin Lindstrom: both of us like, "I can't lie and therefore I can't tell you I like this idea." But d- d- yeah, like you want people who will just be honest with you. That is what you want and need. Go find them.
Jenna Brown: That is really what you want and need. Anyway, so you should hire both of
us. That is the conclusion of the podcast. But truly, how do people find you and hire you? And what are we dropping in the show notes for them?
Erin Lindstrom: Okay. Well, you can find me on Instagram if you wanna talk to me or see what my life is like. And coming soon, I have a bunch of new wind of things coming with YouTube and Instagram, and I'll say that here so I actually have to follow through and do [00:56:00] it. I'm so blessed to be in a situation where I handle the back end for so many people's amazing businesses and all of their shows and all that stuff, and I haven't needed to do my own, and I think it'll be fun to.
That's some of the room we're making on the plate. Yeah, so more to come, and happy to have a conversation. Tell me what's happening. We'll see, we'll see from there.
Jenna Brown: Amazing. Yeah, pop into her DMs. Slide into her DMs and say, "Hey, girl. Hey, girl, hey. I think I'm ready.
Erin Lindstrom: Yeah. Mo- most people come to me and they don't know exactly what they need. It really is like a word vomit. Let's just talk about it, what's happening, what feels funky about your team, or like where are you going and that you feel like you don't know how to do it and you need someone who does, got your back.
And if I don't, I'll tell you because there's no lying here. Can't do it. Yeah.
Jenna Brown: And pop into either of our d- DMs, tell us what you liked about this sesh, this podcast, and like this therapy session we gave you. I feel like this energy was just, it's, whether you know it or not, those of you listening, it was so helpful [00:57:00] for you because we are three lions and we're saving so much
Erin Lindstrom: It's true. We've done everything. We've tried it all.
Jenna Brown: We have tried it all. We can tell you what works and what doesn't. But thank you so much for everything. Thank you for being here. Thanks for
Erin Lindstrom: Yeah, thank you
Jenna Brown: and sharing. I feel like this was such a good combo and really is gonna support women in that I wish I had listened to this combo. Maybe it existed and I just ignored it when I was in this space, but I wish I had listened to this combo because it would have changed the way I was seeing things, tra-
Erin Lindstrom: Totally
Jenna Brown: Banging my head into that glass wall, being like, "Why aren't things different than they are?"
So
thank you
Erin Lindstrom: thank you
Jenna
Outro: Remember, overflow isn't something that you chase. It's something that you become available for, and you all know that I love When you pop into my dms, post an episode, come and share with me what you loved about it. Leave a review for me. That helps so much on the podcast side. Share this to your profiles.
Thank you [00:58:00] ultimately for being here, being a part of this community, being a part of this transmission and reality shift for us, for my children, for your children, and for generations to come. I love you all.
